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Thread: Need more chickens

  1. #11
    Quote Originally Posted by Mayfield View Post
    Yes. In English we would usually see coop for the chickens and co-op for the people. ....
    Thanks From the "yes" I am guessing you are replying to my last question, the one to Barb, what she was expecting... I'm still pondering what y'all have said here, and I notice, albeit I am usually very attentive/observant towards foreign languages, it seems to stop at something like this hyphen. For me, these words (at least still "almost" now) are the same, and I still find it funny and interchangeable. Still

  2. #12
    ...I hope you all are enjoying your holiday weekend!!! ���������������� �
    happy for you that you could laugh with us but - which holiday weekend? here it's just become Tuesday... or, you mean the one behind us? which holiday? (I'm really not going to look up any more things now )
    Last edited by _DD_; 09-02-2019 at 10:30 PM.

  3. #13
    _DD_ , From a quick Google search of the word origin for (a chicken) coop I found that it comes from 'Middle English cowpe ; related to Dutch kuip ‘vat’ and German Kufe ‘cask’, based on Latin cupa .

    Co-op is what I would expect to see for the building that people gather in. Sorry for the confusion.

  4. #14
    Somewhere in there is also from same middle German roots, barrels are made by a cooper, maybe the barrel rings were made from copper.
    Both co-operative and coupé have Latin roots.

    We have a children's story about working towards bread called Little Red Hen.
    A friend of mine (keeps black chickens) was asked by her little boy why the hen was red.
    Answered straight away-lives in an egg-laying collective


    ETA. Jinx with bjk again
    Think its Labour Day, celebrated 1 May in Europe, different roots again
    Last edited by JayS; 09-02-2019 at 11:04 PM.

  5. #15
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    Quote Originally Posted by _DD_ View Post
    happy for you that you could laugh with us but - which holiday weekend? here it's just become Tuesday... or, you mean the one behind us? which holiday? (I'm really not going to look up any more things now )
    As Jay said: yesterday (Monday) was Labor Day in the US, so they all got a three-day weekend.

    Also, yes, I would say “co-operate” or “co-operative”. Or, type, anyways.
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  6. #16
    Quote Originally Posted by JayS View Post
    Somewhere in there is also from same middle German roots, barrels are made by a cooper, maybe the barrel rings were made from copper.
    Both co-operative and coupé have Latin roots.
    Genau, and the person making the barrels is called the „Küfer“ in german, also from the latin cupa, but after the second middle german loud shift (no joke, zweite mittelhochdeutsche Lautverschiebung), which changed the apple into an Apfel and to sit in sitzen ...

  7. #17
    Quote Originally Posted by Zimbelstern View Post
    Genau, and the person making the barrels is called the „Küfer“ in german, also from the latin cupa, but after the second middle german loud shift (no joke, zweite mittelhochdeutsche Lautverschiebung), which changed the apple into an Apfel and to sit in sitzen ...
    Think we may call that the gutteral shift,(???) as distinct from vowel shift, transforming Brot to bread, Bruder to brother and Tochter to daughter.
    It's a long long time since I studied, can't even remember whereabouts the box with text books is

  8. #18
    Quote Originally Posted by BJK14 View Post
    ...Co-op is what I would expect to see for the building that people gather in. Sorry for the confusion.
    n/p, as long as I still can (dare to) ask questions. (I do )
    That conclusion was missing for me at first (cos I didn't know about a real difference of the words).


    Quote Originally Posted by BJK14 View Post
    _DD_ , From a quick Google search of the word origin for (a chicken) coop I found that it comes from 'Middle English cowpe ; related to Dutch kuip ‘vat’ and German Kufe ‘cask’, based on Latin cupa .
    ok, from googling this word, I find f.e. in the world-of-dictionary that cupa can mean / meant:
    • dancing-girl; female tavern-keeper and castanet-dancer; female vintner;
    • barrel, cask, vat, tun; (esp. for wine); niche in a columbarium (for ashes)
    • bar of an oil press (axle for millstones); axle; crooked handle


    that's quite a bit... I hope your sources are right about the relation to words in other languages, cos I don't see from "cask" (Fass) nor "Kufe" (skid?) -- nor from Z's later "Küfer" (cooper) nor Jay's additional "copper" (Kupfer) -- any relation to "Hühnerstall" = henhouse or chicken coop, or arriving at that meaning. :-D

    ~ for some unknown reason I can't quote Jay's post properly, it's #14 above:
    Somewhere in there is also from same middle German roots, barrels are made by a cooper, maybe the barrel rings were made from copper.
    Both co-operative and coupé have Latin roots. ...
    Quote Originally Posted by Zimbelstern View Post
    Genau, and the person making the barrels is called the „Küfer“ in german, also from the latin cupa, but after the second middle german loud shift (no joke, zweite mittelhochdeutsche Lautverschiebung), which changed the apple into an Apfel and to sit in sitzen ...
    Quote Originally Posted by JayS View Post
    Think we may call that the gutteral shift,(???) as distinct from vowel shift, transforming Brot to bread, Bruder to brother and Tochter to daughter.
    It's a long long time since I studied, can't even remember whereabouts the box with text books is
    I'd say you (both!) remember enough, at least to confuse me ;Þ
    So, are you saying we (all) spoke English in Germany, too? (apple/bread etc, after Latin earlier, or what?) LOL
    And (see above) is that shifting thing only about letters and the like, or also about meanings? (cupa/Fass => becoming house?!).



    ...
    Think its Labour Day, celebrated 1 May in Europe, different roots again
    Quote Originally Posted by Nevada View Post
    As Jay said: yesterday (Monday) was Labor Day in the US, so they all got a three-day weekend.

    Also, yes, I would say “co-operate” or “co-operative”. Or, type, anyways.
    Thanks!
    Last edited by _DD_; 09-04-2019 at 08:11 AM. Reason: attempts at quoting fully ;)

  9. #19
    Quote Originally Posted by _DD_ View Post

    ok, from googling this word, I find f.e. in the world-of-dictionary that cupa can mean / meant:
    • dancing-girl; female tavern-keeper and castanet-dancer; female vintner;
    • barrel, cask, vat, tun; (esp. for wine); niche in a columbarium (for ashes)
    • bar of an oil press (axle for millstones); axle; crooked handle


    that's quite a bit... I hope your sources are right about the relation to words in other languages, cos I don't see from "cask" (Fass) nor "Kufe" (skid?) -- nor from Z's later "Küfer" (cooper) nor Jay's additional "copper" (Kupfer) -- any relation to "Hühnerstall" = henhouse or chicken coop, or arriving at that meaning. :-D
    Coop can also be a verb, as in "to coop something up", which means keep, or confine, or imprison something in a small space, so maybe chicken coop came from that

  10. #20
    Quote Originally Posted by _DD_ View Post
    n/p, as long as I still can (dare to) ask questions. (I do )
    That conclusion was missing for me at first (cos I didn't know about a real difference of the words).




    ok, from googling this word, I find f.e. in the world-of-dictionary that cupa can mean / meant:
    • dancing-girl; female tavern-keeper and castanet-dancer; female vintner;
    • barrel, cask, vat, tun; (esp. for wine); niche in a columbarium (for ashes)
    • bar of an oil press (axle for millstones); axle; crooked handle


    that's quite a bit... I hope your sources are right about the relation to words in other languages, cos I don't see from "cask" (Fass) nor "Kufe" (skid?) -- nor from Z's later "Küfer" (cooper) nor Jay's additional "copper" (Kupfer) -- any relation to "Hühnerstall" = henhouse or chicken coop, or arriving at that meaning. :-D

    ~ for some unknown reason I can't quote Jay's post properly, it's #14 above:






    I'd say you (both!) remember enough, at least to confuse me ;Þ
    So, are you saying we (all) spoke English in Germany, too? (apple/bread etc, after Latin earlier, or what?) LOL
    And (see above) is that shifting thing only about letters and the like, or also about meanings? (cupa/Fass => becoming house?!).







    Thanks!
    It's more the other way round, that the English spoke Germanic until.1066 and all that. Reading Chaucer without a working knowledge of German would be (even more) difficult.
    For example, apple used to mean fruit, same usage as 'obst', but after the Normans brought more words, pears peaches etc, it changed to mean just 'apfel'.

    English is mainly a mix of German (from the Angles and Saxons) and French (from the Normans, themselves originally Norse) with some vestiges of Norse (from Vikings), Celtic, Picts etc. Add to that mix a lot of words borrowed from colonies.
    So yes, meanings also shifted slightly as more choices became available.
    When two words are spelled the same but pronounced differently it's a big clue that they have different origins.


    As to names of animal houses, chickens live in a coop, bees in a hive, otters in a holt, horses in a stable, pigs in a sty
    I don't know why.

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