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Thread: Is hopping acceptable or not?

  1. #21
    Quote Originally Posted by Twilight Bookworm View Post
    Thank-you Downton! Not sure why I couldn't pull it up in the advanced search.

    Lol...I'm still trying to wrap my head around the whole thing...even with the help tutorials.

    And there it is pg 4, #35:

    https://forum.playrix.com/showthread...als-grab/page4

    Thanks again!
    You're welcome Twilight, and yes it is a lot to get your head around

  2. #22
    Quote Originally Posted by Will9455Nikki View Post
    With the hopping scenario, you do have the right to do as much as you want, but can't you rationalise that, to some extent, it is a cheat to be able to earn rewards that you haven't truly earned? That's all my point is.
    What do you think we are doing when hopping? Lol, sit around and chat? Okay, that too, but there's really a lot to do, from inviting (a nightmare even without the tab lag) to precisely chime in to finish fast – and of course better be well prepped. This takes a high level of concentration as well as tons of your resources. With a bit of hopping you are practically out of everything after one day.

    30 people are in 1 hop, one of them has to do the main part, 11 of 17 tasks. Of the rest just some have to do 1 task. But if you do say 10 hops and 2 buildings (creating the hop co-op) a day you will have to do 22 tasks plus up to 10 hop tasks.

    Quote Originally Posted by Will9455Nikki View Post
    I just think that if one person has an ability to do more than another, there is an unfair advantage. I just think that there shouldn't be an extreme disadvantage against those who "stay home" and work with their co-op.
    Maybe I am looking at it wrong or backward or missing some key element. But it just doesn't seem like there is a balance to all players.
    That's as if to say the person on the street with the faster car is cheating. To have a faster car, you first have to work hard and earn it usually. The people who stay home and work with their co-op are working also, sure. But in comparison to hop work it is a very laid back kind.

    Why is something being labeled "cheating" and "unfair advantage" when everybody can do it? Doesn't this fact alone contradict the very definition of cheating and unfair advantage?
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  3. #23
    Member Will9455Nikki's Avatar
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    A Co-op Divided

    "To hop or not to hop?" That is now the question!

    Quick note: If the mods feel it appropriate to merge this with any other thread, I understand.

    My co-op suffered several losses this week due to this issue. We went from a great big happy family to one that, with a single festering thorn, resulted in 4 members leaving with 1 more anticipated. Why? Ultimately? Bias!

    All things being equal (which we all know they ultimately are not, so let's not cross that bridge), hoppers earn an advantage that other players do not. I'm willing to discuss both sides, so don't start throwing rotten tomatoes.. Is it fair? Well, that truly depends upon whom you ask.

    There is the ability to earn an abundance of ingots, so long as you are willing to do the prep work to complete tasks in record time. (In this sense, it reminds me of the ability of teams to fork out truckloads of t-cash to win a race.) But the other side of that is that it is exhausting. (This is not speaking from experience, but from the comments of some of my now former teammates.) Is it earned? Most definitely! Is it fair that those that stay home receive less? Oh boy! HERE WE GO!

    Can you recall the "housewife" who demanded equal share when the divorce papers were signed? Did she go to work? No! Did she earn any money? No! Was she any less valuable to the "family"? No! Interesting.

    But the other side to that is that the worker comes home with more experience, more treasure, a better resume (or CV for the Europeans) that enables the family to do more. More tasks (including the more difficult tasks or those requiring higher level) are able to be completed. Is it a benefit to the co-op? Darned if I can answer that honestly!

    Playrix has gone from having a "bye" week (which I presume didn't make any money) to having an "interseasonal" week with a whole new style of competition. But if there was a bright side to the interseasonal of yesteryear, it was based upon the co-op being a community...a true cooperative. Now the message seems to be "do you; to heck with the co-op...you'll surely be invited back in after the week is over". Or at least that is how many are taking it. But now players are talking about taking the 4th seasonal week off in order to prepare for the HOP! Say what? You have players that are going to

    Now I know I've jumped around a bit in this post, but I wanted to make clear the following: After all of the reading that I have done, speaking with players that have participated as well as those who haven't, I believe that the concept of the HOP is quite intriguing and a wholly new system that can be explored. However, I still believe that there is an imbalance between players that stay versus players that go. I wish that a HOP-style system could be integrated into a co-op, although I know that asks for the impossible. I wish that those players who remain at home didn't feel like they were of lesser value than those that go out and explore this strange new world of hopping. I wish that my teammates...my family...would come home. But alas, I didn't post this on "Wish List", so I doubt I'll have any more luck of any of these happening than I would posting this in the sand of a tumultuous beach.

    I was originally anti-hopping. I am currently simply not pro-hopping. So where is the balance? Playrix hasn't found one. Much like the spending of t-cash to win regattas week in, week out. It's a shame too. Anton (Playrix support) was brilliant in helping me get my game back...just in time to watch my co-op implode.

    Ah well, enough posting. Time to hop back to my town.

    FYI....comments not required. Just wanted this out there.
    Town: Is it supposed to stay the same?
    Co-op: Global Ninja Farmers (Tag: #GRRK3R)
    Level: 115 . . . .
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    Active Since: September 2016

  4. #24
    Hi Will/Nikki

    You didn't ask for replies so please don't throw tomatoes at me...

    There are advantages to the home team of having members who hop:-
    - upgraded trains, ships,facs making corresponding tasks easier therefore less competition for the "easy" tasks.
    - fill vouchers and TC to help teammates with planes trains zoo
    - bring new ideas learned from other players home, keeping things fresh
    - bring home like-minded players to strengthen the team, although unfortunately in this instance the opposite has happened.

    There is a middle way of a slow whole co-op hop where the non-hoppers can stay together as a team but gather some of the advantages of hopping.
    -at the beginning of the week player B leaves, starts a new co-op and invites all the non-hoppers except player A who stays behind to keep home co-op open
    - once all have arrived, player C does tasks 1-11, then others do 12- 17.
    -- player C goes back to home co-op to recover and to liberate player A, who joins second temporary co-op created by player D.
    - do personal chests either at last temporary coop or on returning home.

    Hope you don't mind my replying, just wanted to be sure that you knew that there is a middle ground.

  5. #25
    Member Will9455Nikki's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by JayS View Post
    Hi Will/Nikki

    You didn't ask for replies so please don't throw tomatoes at me...
    It's just "Will". Just the result of a bad name creating decision - much like getting the name of a woman tattooed on your arm which makes any future relationship quite complicated if you break up.

    And just WHAT am I supposed to do with all of these tomatoes I've been saving up?


    There are advantages to the home team of having members who hop:-
    bring home like-minded players to strengthen the team, although unfortunately in this instance the opposite has happened.
    You make brilliant points. I can't refute them. I won't even try...save one.

    We never set out to be a GLB team. But then, all of a sudden, there we were - each and every week. Maybe not a top 50 team, though we did break that barrier once, but a team that was formidable and (the part that I loved the most) we did it without the throwing around of t-cash. Sure, there were a few times tasks were sped up by a player or two (typically after announcing weekend plans or extremely busy schedules), but it was limited. I'll even go so far as to say that we were (ah, screw that....we "are") a family. And a few brothers/sisters have now gone abroad, per se. We didn't gain strength; we lost it.

    There is a middle way of a slow whole co-op hop where the non-hoppers can stay together as a team but gather some of the advantages of hopping.
    Again, valid points, but this still only works when playing for the season rather than the hop. And some would rather now take a week or two off to prepare for this wild week. I appreciate the comments, JayS, and you are quite right. But it doesn't alleviate the feelings that many have. I was just trying to vent frustration at losing some teammates based upon some opinions that are held.

    Quote Originally Posted by Cathy Purr View Post
    What do you think we are doing when hopping? Lol, sit around and chat? Okay, that too, but there's really a lot to do, from inviting (a nightmare even without the tab lag) to precisely chime in to finish fast – and of course better be well prepped. This takes a high level of concentration as well as tons of your resources. With a bit of hopping you are practically out of everything after one day.
    Whoa there. Slow down. I've heard the horror stories about the roller coaster ride to hell that hopping can be. I had some exhausted teammates come back from it, even as they were excited to share the stories of hopping. I'm not saying it's not manic. I'm not saying it's not exhilarating. And I'm not saying it is a bad process.

    The concern that a lot have is that it is a different game that isn't a part of the co-op. My own opinions on hopping have actually mellowed out since my first post on the subject. I too thought "cheating" and "unfair" and, having listened to my now former teammates, I do not for one second believe that they haven't "earned" their rewards. But it certainly is not the consensus of all, hence the fracturing of our co-op and my rant.

    That's as if to say the person on the street with the faster car is cheating. To have a faster car, you first have to work hard and earn it usually. The people who stay home and work with their co-op are working also, sure. But in comparison to hop work it is a very laid back kind.
    I love the example.

    But is the person buying the faster car doing it so that they can drive the speed limit? Or are they doing it so that they can "cheat" around it and not feel guilty? Don't get me wrong, most everyone speeds. Except my mother. How often I wished and prayed that she would but....sorry....I lost myself there. But isn't speeding "cheating" in a sense? Isn't the person that makes an illegal U-turn cheating? Don't they have laws that state that no Lamborghini is allowed to drive at a maximum speed higher than the driver of the Ford Prius? Aren't the drivers of both cars held to guidelines regardless of the horses that run it?

    Why is something being labeled "cheating" and "unfair advantage" when everybody can do it? Doesn't this fact alone contradict the very definition of cheating and unfair advantage?
    You too make a brilliant point here. But...can everyone do it? Are there guidelines in place prevent anyone from doing it? No. (And I'm sure that was more the point that you are making.) But someone has to stay home to keep the lights on, don't they? Or do you hunt to find out who has the extra device to create a town and build it to co-op level to keep the co-op going. So again I ask, can everyone do it?

    Again, personally, I love the idea associated with hopping though I don't think I would ever be willing to expend the time/energy to do it myself. But that is neither here nor there. If it were the main aspect of gameplay, I would probably retire. But I do still believe there is an imbalance, even if I don't consider it "cheating". Unfair? Maybe. Cheating? No. Does it affect my town? Not in the least and I encourage everyone to play the game that suits them.

    I don't know the answer to this dilemma. All I can do is wish every hopper success and a bloody fun time doing it! I just hope we don't lose anybody else because of it.

    Will
    Town: Is it supposed to stay the same?
    Co-op: Global Ninja Farmers (Tag: #GRRK3R)
    Level: 115 . . . .
    Friend Code: A8QUW3

    Active Since: September 2016

  6. #26
    Pro - Hopping / Anti - Hopping is like Republican / Democrat (or Labor / Conservative for our UK friends) (or pick your favorite analogy from the thousands available at "total-opposites.com"). Not only do people on opposite sides disagree but sometimes they can't even understand how the other person can even think they way they do.

    I am curious as to what lead to the fracture of your co-op? It's got to be more than just hopping vs stay at home.

  7. #27
    Member Will9455Nikki's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by cdosr View Post
    Pro - Hopping / Anti - Hopping is like Republican / Democrat (or Labor / Conservative for our UK friends) (or pick your favorite analogy from the thousands available at "total-opposites.com"). Not only do people on opposite sides disagree but sometimes they can't even understand how the other person can even think they way they do.

    I am curious as to what lead to the fracture of your co-op? It's got to be more than just hopping vs stay at home.
    I am a Democratic Republican who lives in the UK and doesn't flipping understand Labo(u)r/Conservative.

    It is one of those things where, regardless of what is going on, people are going to find reason to disagree. (Kinda like how I appear to be about the only person who actually REALLY likes the Tool Exchange, but that's beside the point.)

    You know how a "misunderstanding" can lead to all-out war? Use that as a basis. One "hopper" returns home. If you ask one person, they were "bragging"; if you ask the other, they were "excited to share experience". That person comes back telling of the great number of ingots earned and how many upgrades that this person was able to accomplish. The other person, who doesn't have the time to be an effective "hopper", considered the "excitement" to be "bragging".

    Don't get me wrong. The terminology used was easy to interpret either way. And, if you have read my other posts (which I'm sure you have), you will know that I was anti-hopping at first too. I would have taken these comments the same way if I hadn't listened.

    I feel the need to interject a comment at this time. I've always been an easy-going person, but I am quick to give my opinion of something. That said, I'm happy to change my mind if reasons come about that warrant a change. I still don't think it is a perfect system, but I applaud anyone who guts out the "hop". I envy them (if I might say so) the time to be able to do it. I can't as I know that I wouldn't be effective with the time that I have available, though I haven't ruled it out for a future try if my own situation changes.

    It is one of those things that, I guess, you can't truly be against unless you have tried it and have more reason to stand behind your decision. But it is amazing how one small set of comments can lead to 16% of your co-op disappearing. (At least two became "friends" before going. I already miss them though.)

    Hope that explains without going into too much detail (unlike my inability to shut up).
    Town: Is it supposed to stay the same?
    Co-op: Global Ninja Farmers (Tag: #GRRK3R)
    Level: 115 . . . .
    Friend Code: A8QUW3

    Active Since: September 2016

  8. #28
    Some very interesting points here...

    Been doing a bit more thinking about this and talking to a few people who do or don't hop, including some first time hoppers and to be frank hopping now really worries me.

    I used to play another game, a simple incremental clicking game, it was fun, updated regularly to keep it fresh, I played happily for around 6 months. Then the developer bought in a new feature, there was a glitch in that feature which when exploited gave you infinite points very quickly allowing you to complete the game in a matter of hours. Of course people exploited this, talked about it on the internet etc, it totally killed the game. The developer tried to save it but had to give up and move on to ****** ****** mark 2.

    Thing is I'm worried that hopping will do the same, maybe not quite as quickly, but it definitely throws off the balance in the game. If you can continually earn as many gems, ingots, T cash, boosters, materials, tools as you like won't you run out of things to do a lot quicker? Once you have built everything, upgraded everything to the max, bought all the decorations and got 20 of each booster stored... what is there left to do?

    The Regatta? Problem is hopping already seems to have had a detrimental effect on the regatta, speed racing is more common, it is harder for non hopping co-ops to win. Now we hear that some hoppers are already considering sitting weeks of the regatta out to prepare for hopping...hopping is no longer a way to get a few T cash and boosters to help with the next regatta, but the main part of the game.

    I continually see people on here and on FB asking for things to be made easier, cheaper or quicker and wiser players telling them to take their time, be patient this isn't a game you "finish". My worry is that hopping will do exactly what these players are asking for...make the game easier or quicker so people can finish it and move on.

    Having said all that...I am sorely tempted to give it a try.

  9. #29
    Just want to add to this...

    If the developers go ahead with their plans, currently in beta to add time penalties to all co-op moves even those with invites this is just one more way that non hoppers are being penalised by the developers trying to stop hopping without coming out and admitting it.

    Yes, this move will stop hopping. If that is what the developers want then great, they will achieve it...but it will also harm normal players who don't hop.

    For example last month a friend of ours in a solo co-op came to our co-op to buy the gold yacht club deco. I went and babysat his co-op while he did this. Simple process, with invites, it took ten minutes. Under these new time restrictions it could take most of the day.

    Then you have co-op groups where co-ops of different levels and targets work together under a common name, these are beneficial as members can move to a co-op with lower targets in a busy week rather than opting out...problem is these moves will also be limited as having to ultimately wait 24 hours to join a new co-op will stop people having time to move on a Monday.

    It will also make it harder to find a suitable co-op for new players as each time they try one they don't like the time penalties will increase making it harder to join a new one...

    I am sure there are more examples out there but you get the idea.

    Again, I have nothing really against hopping, but I would ask Playrix, if they want to stop hopping to please find a way of doing this that doesn't impact regular players.

    Thanks.

  10. #30
    Will, it sounds like the mass exodus from your Co - op may have been due, at least in part, to a lack of honest communication. I am a hopper, although I have only hopped twice. If my fellow coop members had expressed any concerns while I was being recruited by a fellow teammate on our coop chat or after I returned from my first hopping season, I probably would have foregone the experience. ...
    ... Posting here is a good way to share your thoughts with the community but it is not a substitute for sharing with your coop directly.
    On a side note, I do agree that the current method for calculating the number of IS tasks is unfair but I only know that because of posts on the forum, not because anyone in my coop brought it up to me. I would have been willing to come back early to complete tasks if anyone had bothered to raise it.
    Last edited by Bessville; 05-19-2019 at 06:33 AM.

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